A Skills Framework For Upskilling And Reskilling With Charlotte Evans

This is the eLearn podcast. If you’re passionate about the future of learning, you’re in the right place. The expert guests on this show provide insights into the latest strategies, practices,

and technologies for creating killer online learning outcomes. My name’s Ladek, and I’m your host from Open LMS. The eLearn Podcast is sponsored by eLearn Magazine,

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a company leveraging open -source software to deliver effective, customized and engaging learning experiences for schools, universities, companies and government. governments around the world since 2005.

Learn more at Open LMS .net. Hi there, my name is Ladek, and my guest for today is Charlotte Evans. She is a senior solutions consultant at Coursera,

who advises North American companies on their upskilling and resealing learning solutions. She worked in Asia for five years in student services, where she also pursued a fellowship through the World Innovation Summit.

for Education, or WISE, Learner’s Voice Program. In this data -driven conversation, Charlotte and I talk about her journey and her role at Coursera, where she assists companies in sifting through the overwhelming array of learning options to find the right solutions for their teams.

Next, the core of our discussion revolves around the Skills Compass Report, a pivotal piece of research to which Charlotte contributed. contributed. We probe into the significance of the report,

its findings and its relevance in today’s fast -paced learning and development landscape. The conversation then moves into the return on investment in learning, with Charlotte discussing how companies can balance short -term gains with long -term value through skill development.

Charlotte then addresses the challenge of content chaos and how companies approach Corsair for helping Corsair. in organizing their learning strategies and making sense of the overwhelming amount of learning content available out there.

Finally, we end our conversation talking about the impact of company size on approaches to learning and adapting to generative AI with Charlotte sharing her observations on the diverse strategies employed by different organizations.

And remember, we record this podcast live so that we can interact with you at least once a week. in real time. So don’t be surprised when you hear Charlotte and I answer questions and react to comments as they come in.

If you would like to join the fun every week on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on YouTube, on Twitter, or I guess it’s called Xnow, or on Instagram, just come over to elearnmagazine .com and subscribe.

Now I give you Charlotte Evans. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Elearn Podcast. My name is Lattic as you just heard Umpteen Tines and I’ll see you next time. was like, I like to tell everyone this show is not about me.

This show is about my guest here, Charlotte Evans. Charlotte, how are you today? I’m doing well. How are you? I am fantastic. As she knows, Charlotte knows I had a bit of a morning in the green room and so we’re coming to this truly without a net today,

which is fantastic. I love it. But Charlotte, I know that you are actually in between. presented presentations, right? You are like, you are like the rock star out there, like, Oh, hey, I’m just gonna get off stage and go do my promo right now.

Where do we find you sitting right now? Yes, in the blackout curtains in a hotel room in Phoenix, Arizona, I am here for a CLO CHRO summit.

So right after this, I’ll be on a panel talking about leadership development training, which is quite an interesting topic in relation to what we’re seeing right now about calls to have leaders be more human.

So it’s quite an interesting time, but excited to be here today as well and be able to hop between audiences and keeps my brain going. – Yeah, 100%, I love it.

I love everybody on the show to kind of take 60 seconds to introduce themselves, kind of, you know. tell us about you, where you came from, position yourself a bit, and then tell us like what you’re,

I should mention you’re, you work for Coursera. I mean, not a, not a small player in the, in the learning business, but tell us about what, where you are at in that ecosystem and what you do. Yeah,

for sure. Thanks for the, for the space to do that. My name is Charlotte Evans. I’m a senior solution consultant at Coursera. So my role is really to work with companies companies who are thinking about a learning solution for their people,

but they maybe aren’t totally sure about the solution design. There’s a kind of bombardment right now of options and skills, focus areas,

and content chaos that a lot of companies are navigating. So my role is really to reduce some of that noise for stakeholders. I’ve been at Coursera for about four four and a half years and before that I was in Asia working for two different universities over there,

more of the student services side. So it’s been an interesting career pivot to move into the ed tech space and have personally been an active Coursera learner myself as I’ve navigated moving into more of the tech world,

while also speaking to companies about digital transformation. So. So it’s been a fun journey. – I gotta ask what part of Asia? ‘Cause I moved here to Mexico. I’m in Mexico right now.

– Okay. – I was in Bangkok. What part of Asia were you in? – Yeah, I was in Shanghai for two years working for NYU Shanghai. And then I moved over to Singapore for three years to work for Yale NUS.

– Nice. Fantastic. I love, I love, I love another traveler. We’ll just leave it there. Fantastic. What we want to talk about today,

I actually reached out to you specifically to talk about something you’ve presented on, something that you, a report that you created called the Skills Compass Report. TSM, what is the Skills Compass Report for 2023?

Why is it important? Why was it something that you felt like you needed to put on this stage there and we can kind of go into details about the different parts of it? – Yeah, for sure. I love this report that Coursera did with Burning Glass Institute.

I think it’s provided a really wonderful, clean, crisp framework for a lot of companies. You know, I mentioned that I do a lot of skills transformation work for our clients and I have been on the receiving end of this report.

many hefty spreadsheets with thousands of rows and columns across each of the roles and skills and companies will come to us and say can you map against that and I’ll say I mean I think we could but I’m not sure if you want that output or if your employees will know what to do with that output so the progression that we’ve seen from this this binary approach of the zero one of course completion Enrollment learning

hours to more of a skills -based approach to learning has has been a pivot many companies are going through But it’s challenging, right? It’s kind of hard to figure out where to start How to iterate and so when this report came out that course era did with burning glass It really crystallized a lot of those frameworks for people so So I can give you kind of the down low of the report and then I’d love for your

questions as well. But so the real power of this I think is Burning Glass has millions of job postings that they’re able to look through and they also have light cast data.

So which is how they funnel their skills taxonomy. But across all of that information, and they’re able to look through and they’re able to look through and they’re able to look through and they’re able to look through and they’re able to look through and they’re able to look through able to look at three skills dimensions that they saw in all of these job postings.

So time to skill, which was really thinking about education and background that people would need to have in order to demonstrate the skills to get the job. Second was skill value,

and that was tied to wage. And then third was skill longevity, so the half life of those skills. And… And using those three dimensions,

they were able to take top skills that were bubbling up and cluster them into five different skill types. So just to kind of give an overview of what those skill types are,

first was solid investment. So these are skills that are going to be high across all three of those dimensions, high time to skill, high skill value, high with a lot of learning that was put in place during the pandemic.

This is really emphasizing with the solid investment skill type to focus on formal development programs for those kind of personas that really need to do that deep dive.

So you don’t need to give really intensive training to everybody. It’s going to be tough to figure out time and space for those individuals. But for those that do need that deep dive,

let’s make sure to actually chisel out the space for that learning. learning. The second and third skill types are quick dividends and enduring skills.

And for a lot of the companies that I’ve been talking with that had looked at this report, they said, “All of this information is really wonderful, but I don’t fully know how to action on this.

We are very much in the land of enrollments and completions. We have some some reticence around moving to a skills -based approach for our learning. I need to be able to quickly show ROI.

My budget might get cut if I’m not able to prove that I have ROI. And so these two areas, quick dividends and enduring skills, things like negotiation,

planning, data analysis, teamwork, communications, critical thinking, thinking. These are skills that are truly evergreen and will benefit from an up -to -date library of content.

They’re lower time to skill with higher skill longevity. So even with all of the changes that are happening in the digital environment, the skills will still persist as important skills to focus on.

So this has been a really nice place, I think, for companies to know. not go down the rabbit hole of those huge matrices that they end up building out and say let’s just start with this,

have a really agile mindset, show that we can move our people to more this kind of skills -based approach to learning and go from there. And then the fourth skill type that we see a lot in more of our kind of technical departments is this adaptive skilling area.

So this this is a higher time to skill, but challengingly a very short skill longevity area. So things are just very quickly changing.

So we’ve seen this very prominently in the generative AI space here. So things like cloud, AI, machine learning, DevOps, the world has just been flipped on its head in these places,

but they are the… underpinning of successful digitally driven companies. And so recognizing that the right people who need those specific skills,

need the time and space to keep fresh in those skills areas is quite important. But also making sure you’re not applying those kind of buzzword technology skills to people who maybe don’t need to constantly stay fresh in those skills,

maybe direct them to more of the enduring or quick dividend skills. And then the final skill type is commodity. And it’s interesting, I’m at this conference right now and it’s a CHRO CLO summit,

but there’s also concurrent sessions that are running with CISOs, CIOs, CDOs. And so it’s kind of interesting to be in this ecosystem.

of the C -suite, right? Not just in learning and development, but across the board, and I think it’s showcasing a lot of what this fifth skill type is talking about, where learning,

often, a lot of the companies I’m seeing are happening in these silos, and this year in particular, as you need to connect ROI to business -level attributes,

the CLO team needs to move from the back room to the boardroom. And so there’s also an emphasis on thinking about how to collaborate more effectively.

And a large part of that is recognizing where internal mobility is maybe not the solution through skilling changes and maybe partnering more actively with your talent acquisition and talent management partners is also important.

So this fifth skill type kind of reduces some of the noise and focus. on it might be easier to hire somebody out the gate who has Tableau knowledge or no CSS or HTML5 and they can immediately be plonked in as a contractor.

They maybe don’t need to be so steeped in that domain knowledge of the company and they can hop in quickly efficiently do that work and move on to another project to create change.

But unless kind of… are really partnering with their talent acquisition partners between the, the CLO and, and talent acquisition, I think often this gets, um, duplicated effort in terms of hiring and training.

So that feels like this. Hi there. I’m sorry to break into the show right now, but if you’re enjoying this show, if you are challenged, if you’re inspired, if you’re learning something,

if you think that you’re going to be able to get something out of this to put into your practice, practice, do me a quick favor, pause right now and just hit subscribe on your podcast player right now. It doesn’t matter which one, just hit subscribe because that way it’ll make sure that you never miss an episode in the future.

Thanks. Now, back to the show. – That was not a compass, that was a full map, that was a full, you know, like, almanac, I guess is the word I’m looking for.

But, so dial me back. But I think you teed it up perfectly. because you’re at this conference right now and you’re at that level that is above learning. It’s the whole resource. It’s the human, you know,

we’re looking at the people who are like, okay, what’s our workforce look like? I wanna go back to a thing that kind of blew my mind early in the report that talked about, you know, every five years,

I think it’s something like 37 to 40 % of skills change in any particular job. Yeah, I make sure, I think I’m quoting this. that correctly. But that in itself kind of blew me away.

How does someone in the C -suite or how does someone in that leadership, like, how are they tracking that? How are they knowing that? How are they seeing that? And are you kind of watching it erode over the years or is this something where it’s kind of predicted?

We’re like, but hey, we know that these skills are gonna become obsolete and we need to prepare for it. Or is it maybe a mix of both? Yeah, I think it’ll really depend on the company context and we see these kind of two personas of the Disruptor and the disrupted a lot of the time in our conversations and and I think that that’s okay,

right a lot of the companies that I’m working with are starting to try and figure that out and You know it was interesting. I was at a conference conference in February and I asked the audience about how much they’re thinking about connecting learning to ROI.

And everyone kind of looked at me like, what are you talking about? And I asked the same question. – Still? Really? Well, we’re like, we’re in 2024 already. Is it really? – Wow. – 2023, Lottie.

– Oh, I mean, come on. – Clinton Nile about the new year. – Sure. But I asked the same question in October, and everyone’s hands went up, right? I think there’s been these huge budget pressures that have really kicked in in a short amount of time that are forcing everyone to really do that kind of closer evaluation of what skills are we trying to impact?

Where are we as a company? Where do we need to improve? And there’s been an interesting element in all of this of– of the role of data and skills.

Some of the companies that I’m working with, I’m thinking about a credit services company I worked with that was trying to understand how their people are able to be effective decision makers leading in ambiguity.

And they did these self assessments and the data was so subjective. It was really hard to build a strategy around it, right? It was really hard to build a strategy around it. self -evaluation is happening people are questioning a lot of the time whether how the data will be used as a kind of self -evaluation and their performance review and so there’s been a real push I think to more objective skills measurements so

that companies are able to at a baseline be able to benchmark where they’re at in terms of their people and then from there figure out the strategy And so much of that is dependent on that kind of intersection between industry and where the product or services are going.

And so I don’t think there’s necessarily one core set of skills that are coming up across companies. But that objective data to really understand where they’re at has been,

I think enlightening for a lot of companies to be able to truly understand, that are coming up across companies to be able to really understand, that are coming up across companies to be able to really understand, and oh, look, there’s one core set of skills and oh, look, there’s one core set of skills this pocket in finance, for example, that really has more forecasting and analytical skills than we realized,

and they’re going to be really great at crystallizing our forecasting model, but there’s big gaps in cross -functional communication skills, and so we maybe really need to focus on that area.

And so it’s been an interesting conversation, but I think there’s a– element to around measuring and deciding on those skills out the gate instead of trying to look at statistics at the end and then reverse engineer.

So that’s been a big focus, I think, as companies are looking into that ROI story this year as budgets are tightening and there’s this broader pressure to really think about that.

that. Take me one step further there. Across the three dimensions of time -to -skill, skill value, and skill longevity, do you or have you heard,

especially like at a conference you’re at right now, from the C -suite, from like the CLO or the CHR suite, do one of those bring more ROI?

Why? I guess the question I’m trying to ask is, are we looking for short -term term gains? Or are we looking for, you know, building value over time so that our workforce feels like they are,

you know, I would think like a skill that has longevity, we’re going to invest in that because then, you know, we’re building value in the company and in the workforce over time, whereas something that is we can get it quick and we’re going to get a quick hit,

but we’re going to have more churn, right? Talk to me about any of those discussions. Yeah, we’re seeing kind of three use cases or applications of the report and in terms of companies that I’m working with.

First is that one I mentioned around the quick dividends and enduring skills of needing that quick return on investment. I do think there is an element of short -term can lead to long -term gains if budget is secured in the long -term by proof of success in the short -term.

(laughs) And so some of the companies that I’m working with that are new to the skills journey are really leveraging that quick lift kind of approach. The second subset of company that we’re seeing is in the technical domain where in this kind of world of content chaos and backlogs that so many learning teams have,

they might have built a solution in 2021. 2021 and not looked at it again since then. And the world has disrupted and changed quite a lot since then,

right? What’s happened in two years. And so we’ve seen that it’s a chance to create this kind of hygiene and a reflection for a lot of these more technical teams that are leaning into those heavier lift,

heavier ask programs in the adaptive and solid investment spaces. and and saying, okay, well, this was really successful in 2021, but how does generative AI change what we’re thinking about in all of this?

How does the new technology and services and features in our cloud ecosystem change all of this? And so kind of a re -ranking and deprioritization of some of the skills has also been important.

And then the third is this kind of fill -in -the -gap approach. So I mentioned the spaghetti on the wall. I think a lot of companies were getting these laundry lists from their leaders in the panic of COVID,

of what do we need to focus on? And the five leaders that ended up replying to that email thread were the ones that got their skills focused on, right? And the others were kind of left behind.

And so it might not have been… been reflective of a kind of holistic strategy for skills development. So we’re seeing this as a way for companies to look across this broader list and say,

okay, we’ve really drilled in in these three disparate areas, but this kind of cloud of information is something we haven’t focused as much on, but it is quite critical to our business success in the next video.

fiscal year. So let’s fill in that gap and do a bit of a gap analysis to go from there. So that’s generally what we’ve been seeing so far, but it’s been interesting to kind of see the approaches too in terms of the positioning of the time side of things as well,

right? I had a company I was working with that wanted to have all their project managers have the same. same shared lexicon and they had a team of about 30 ,000 people and so we built out this whole short -form micro -learning approach and had really pushed forward this content so that everyone felt familiar with WACI charts and project initiation to project closing and that we went and looked at this report together and

we’re scratching our heads because project management is listed as a solid investment skill or time to skill is the highest and we’re going, huh, we built out a completely different structure for this.

And so we kind of thought, oh, did we have a hiccup? But then I think there was a realization of no, it’s still valuable at the top of the funnel, but the people who are really facilitating and leading this change do need deeper mastery.

So we ended up building out a formal development program of courses for that. further down the funnel group of individuals. So yeah, it’s been an interesting process to see how it’s been applied.

How does a company, first, you know, I guess when they come to you, have they already recognized? I love the chaos of content, the content chaos, the sea of information,

you know, that they’ve kind of put out there for employees or not. What’s their first step into organizing this? Well, it’s been an interesting process to see how it’s been applied. they coming to him like, please help us? Or they’re like, we kind of have ideas,

we kind of have, you know, we know where we want to go and it’s, you’re curating a list of courses for them? Or what, what does that conversation look like? It would be really nice if I had just a list sent to me.

I mean, this is hard, right? But that’s what I’m saying, I’m wondering, because you’ve, I mean, you coin it, like that content chaos and I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it in, I hate to say it in our company and you know,

in every company I’ve ever worked with as well where it’s just kind of like, it’s that over, it’s that menu overwhelm, you know, when you go to a restaurant and there’s 75 things and you’re like, they all kind of sound good. You know,

we’re not sure where to go. – Yeah. – Tell me about that. – Yeah, I’m seeing everything across the gamut. There are some companies that come to me. I found it’s generally more in the technical and data space where they maybe just bought a new tool or software and they or they have a big cloud transformation or migration that’s happening and they know the precise audience group that needs to be trained on this precise

tool by this precise date and that’s a really clean cut, clear business oriented skill space. -based approach to learning, right? And so occasionally I will get those emails of like,

can you map against this content? And that’s what our team does of kind of reducing the noise. But there are also people that come to us and they’re like, skill?

– I don’t know. Yeah, yeah. – Well, that’s really fun, right? I think it’s a good chance to to start having those higher level conversations. conversations. And across a lot of these conferences,

I’ve heard this perception of, in the learning and development space, the shift from being order takers to consultants and really starting to feel more comfortable in understanding the finances of how a company works.

One of the speakers at the session yesterday said, “HR, people need to know about this.” how revenue is made at the company. And so just really I think sometimes in the learning community there can be a bit of a phobia around fiscal data and so starting to feel really comfortable in understanding where does our money come from?

Where are we losing based on higher operational costs? costs? How can we think about optimizing and minimizing revenue and cost, right?

And then the skills can often come from that work. Our CEOs at different companies give such clear directive, right, in terms of corporate strategy.

If you’re a public company, you can see it in your investor relations reports. If you’re a private company, it might be delivered in a different way, but usually come in a different way. might have an annual set of objectives and key results or KPIs or whatever it might be.

And those can often be the anchor for a learning strategy, but that’s a big shift if you’ve just been approaching like our people said they want to learning. So here’s learning to more of that connected to the business approach.

And so that’s for companies that are newer to that kind of story. that’s generally where we’re starting. And then the next kind of place that I think was less reflected in the skills compass report,

because it was written in earlier this year and generally I hadn’t really exploded quite yet, is that’s a conversation where we’re having a lot of interesting dialogue right now of how do I figure out how to train my people.

in this? Somebody at my company thinks there’s a gen AI button that can just automate everything, but I don’t think that’s totally true. What do I do?

And we’re seeing this kind of bottoms up and top down approach working well at a lot of companies of if you give people access to the tools and get them skilled there,

they can do a lot of grassroots kind of development. development and innovation and automation, but you also need that leadership buy -in to really facilitate that kind of transformation and people feeling empowered to think strategically about how this can shift the business.

And so a lot of the companies that we’re talking with right now are trying to figure out that combination of things, how to train their people in the short term. And then in the long term, a lot of the research is… saying, OK,

once the tools are able to automate or augment a lot of these workflows, what will the humans in our company be doing?

And a lot of it comes down to what we’re seeing is these more durable skills are going to be more important than ever. Somebody who can wrangle all of these insights,

critically think about an output and say, is that chatbot hallucinating right now? – Right, yeah. – Or is that a right answer? They can effectively problem solve. They can be adaptable and work together cross -functionally in teams.

They can have a growth mindset. These skills are becoming really at the fore again. And so for the companies that are a bit more mature in their generative AI strategy, they’re not only thinking about this immediately.

immediate pressure of, oh my goodness, I have to think about how to bake in Gen AI into my products and services and the operational workflows, but then how do we set our people up for success 12 months from now by making sure that they have the skills that we’re creating and activating today.

So it’s been an interesting evolution of kind of the conversations we’ve been hearing since this report came out. out. Have those conversations been different according to company size?

If you’re talking about a startup versus a small -medium business to a corporation that’s like, “Hey, look, we’ve got a workforce of 1 ,000 or greater,” how do those maybe perspectives differ when you’re thinking about what’s possible or where?

where they focus at limited time, limited budget, what direction do they usually focus in? I don’t know if it’s been as much size.

I think a lot of it can be, I mean, this sounds very reductive, but if these tools are allowed or not, I have a lot of conversations where companies are like,

we can’t use tradGBT. I’ve heard that a lot. I’ve heard that a lot, mostly because it’s such an unknown, you know, that it’s easier to just say blanket no than to figure out the nuance for each department,

for each situation, etc., right? Yeah, and concerns about data privacy and what employees might put into a public model, how that might train the model.

So, we’ve created a private playground. for our Coursera ecosystem and our company, we might serve 136 million learners but we are just over a thousand employees so we’re pretty small.

All things considered at Coursera and our CEO has been championing this work and really aggressively asking us to think about it which has been exciting but what I’m seeing from the customers that I’m working with I think it’s less of a side of a company and more the breakdown of roles.

So research from McKinsey showed that some of the greatest impacted roles in terms of annual fiscal impact would be in R &D,

software engineering, sales and marketing. So I’m talking to a lot of pharmaceutical companies right now who are aggressively thinking about this, right? How can we use…

our own trained LLM to think about accelerating drug discovery, finding unexpected unique permutations?

I’m talking to a lot of customer service sales and marketing teams about how can we accelerate content creation and generation and expedite and make our sales people better. Tech teams are also thinking about this,

right? The software engineering folks, I think across the board there was this trend before generative AI of okay you have these maybe lower waged employees with lower education background and things like cashiers or clerks that that were more at risk for for automation but there was an approach of okay we can credentialize these individuals and give them skilling to to bring them to higher wage roles roles and there were

roles in in things like software engineering That felt protected and safe But now all of a sudden generative AI is coming onto the scene and saying well, nope You are at risk of automation as well And so there’s different teams.

I think that are Once they kind of get over that fear, which is a huge change management and mental shift, right? of I I’m no longer a gatekeeper of this skill,

I need to really let go of that job protection feel and move toward embracing these tools and thinking about how it can allow me to accelerate the work I’m doing,

continue innovating in our product development. For those companies as they’ve been leading in more, we’re seeing a gradual shift toward recognition that this is happening and And so how do we train our people and things like co -pilot?

And sure. Well, I think that’s an absolutely fascinating human problem, right? Is where it’s just, you know, it’s like, we want you to not be the gatekeeper. We want you to let go and sort of, you know,

and at the same time, that’s the, you’re asking people to sort of take on a very large bit of change and insecurity in that position.

And so so how do we then make sure they feel like they have that safety net and whatnot? That’s a fantastic human problem. I love it Yeah, which is why I think it’s quite important not just to have this kind of groundswell from the employee level but this buy -in from the from the CEO or C -suite level to To say this is something that we want you to go on this journey with us think of all around job insecurity.

But for companies that can strategically think about it, that feels like there is a significant revenue increase potential from all of this. So, it’s really a lot about mindset shift.

Fantastic. On that note, give us your final word. If somebody wants to get started with the skills compass report or the next iteration of it,

since it’s about, you know, you may be doing an update to it or whatnot, what’s the the best way? I mean, we put the URL at the very beginning of this, of this conversation. How do people reach out to you and,

you know, ask you, you know, how do I get started? Yes, well, hopefully the Coursera for Business URL will be put down in this link. Oh, great. You and you have the report there as well.

So I would say download the report and have a read through. And if you want to connect with Coursera, we have a… Coursera for Business website that will put you in touch with our people.

We’d love to continue the conversation with everyone. Whether you’re far along in your skills journey or just starting, I think there’s lots of opportunity for growth no matter where your company is sitting in that journey.

So we’re excited to chat with you and geek out a little bit on skills. Yeah, I can’t thank you enough for finding this space in between your talks and your panels and whatnot to talk to us about this report.

And also just, I mean, a great conversation around this journey into thinking about skills rather than, you know, rather than just learning for learning’s sake, but like, you know, this different structure, this different way to organize how we look at what the future holds for the workforce.

So thank you very much. Thanks for having me. It was great to be here. – Thank you again for listening to the eLearn podcast here from Open LMS. I just wanted to ask one more time,

if you enjoyed this show, if you learned something, if you were inspired, if you were challenged, if you feel like this is something you can take into your practice, please do me a favor. And right now, on your podcast player,

hit subscribe. That way you’re never going to miss a future episode. Also, come over to elearnmagazine .com and subscribe there as well because we have tons of great information about how to create killer online learning outcomes.

Thanks.